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Thursday, June 25, 2020

"Locked Up" - Why Is America So Mean?

Pax on both houses: "Cruelty Is The Point," An Update On Trump's ...

Tom Magnuson: Some thoughts on our most garish exceptionalism, our exceptional violence:
Locked Up | John F. Pfaff

THEBAFFLER.COM

Locked Up | John F. Pfaff

The desire to punish is more deeply ingrained than we would like to think, and it applies to violent and nonviolent crimes alike.

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  • Tom Magnuson

    The author, intent on protecting Corrections Officer unions, focused on how vengeful we Americans are; very stimulating reading.

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  • Tom Magnuson

    The author marvels at violence in America and the violence of the electorate. When we see injustice in the application of justice we tend to want the lesser punishment dispensed to the well connected be increased to the greater punishment applied to th… 
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  • Tom Magnuson

    The author overlooks entirely the baleful impact of private sector prisons which he avers constitute just 8% of budgeted monies for prisons. He overlooks the fact that these share-holder driven corporations can afford to spend a great deal in increment… 
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  • Tom Magnuson

    So, maybe we should consider if we are a mean and violent people, why are a mean and violent people? The reason being, mean and violent seems to be much, much more expensive than peaceful and compassionate. So I beg you to consider the issue if for no … 
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    • Alan Archibald

      I consider myself a Christian. But I am also convinced that we remake ourselves in the image of our gods and that for at least 150,000,000 Americans, God is not only vengeful and punitive but has designed the Universe so that eternal, inescapable torment is the divinely-ordained destiny of most humans.
      If one reads the Book of Revelation literally (as many do) there will only be 144,000 “saved” souls.
      The rest will roast in a Lake of Unquenchable Fire whose purpose is not even reformative but sheerly torturous.
      This vision of divinity not only makes room for cruelty and meanness, it obliges cruelty and meanness.
      The faithful (and I must be clear that I am referring to faithful “conservative” “Christians” are — not only understandably, but necessarily — made in the image of their God.
      Then there is the militant self-righteousness of subscribing to the one true Faith, an arrogant belief system that has devolved into Manifest Destiny and “the white man’s burden.”
      If conservative Christianity’s visión of Armageddon comes to pass, It will not be a divinely-ordained event, but rather a self-fulfilling prophecy wrought by flabbergastingly small-minded people
      Jesuit friend Tom Weston observed that ‘you can safely assume you’ve created God in your own image when it turns out God hates all the same people you do.’

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    • Mary Yordy


      Alan Archibald
       this reminds me of a friend's observation--how the Spanish at the time of colonization were steeped in religious imagery of gruesome suffering and blood, her theory was that this habituated them on some level to killing. But in general I don't accept critiques of Fundamentalist ideas as solid critiques of the entire scope of Christianity. It seems to me that Fundamentalist movements in any faith are toxic, defensive, vengeful and bullying and leave behind sensible ideas like kindness, spiritual modesty (the possibility that we cannot fully know divine will) and the universal obligation to love.

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    • Alan Archibald


      Mary Yordy
       Thanks for your comment. I agree that throwing out the baby with the bathwater is a terrible idea. To prevent this detrimental conclusion I began with a statement of my Christianity, followed by clarification that "I am referring to faithful 'conservative' 'Christians' are — not only understandably, but necessarily — made in the image of their God."

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  • Tom Magnuson

    We are a mean and violent people because we have a mean and violent history which we chose to aggrandize. We seldom mention alternatives that actually worked. For instance, American history with North America's Native Peoples, generally focuses on sla… 
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    • Kimberli Munkres


      Tom Magnuson
       ...I've often said that a relationship that begins in a bar, ends in a bar. I think the same is true for countries. Those that begin with deceit and violence will end in deceit and violence.

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    • Tom Magnuson


      Kimberli Munkres
       I hope you are wrong. I want to think that we can overcome our prejudices. Can you offer an example of a country that began without deceit and violence?

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  • Tom Magnuson

    Our meanness and violence are most obvious in our policing in which wholesale violence is condoned by all but the violated. The basic values of meanness and violence are at the core of the militarized police. We have been actively waging war almost co… 
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  • George W. Appenzeller

    I'd make that 1950 on the constant war front, Tom. But that is just part of our heritage. We have only had 17 years of peace in our history.

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  • Ben Dyer

    I consider the Vietnam war, Iraq invasion, torture and the Afghan wars to be examples of violence and meanness, too easily justified.

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